Post: #1

This post is not a script request, but rather an idea for the sphere community scripting section. If a mod would prefer this post be elsewhere, then by all means, move it.

I love the community feel of these forums. People willingly give help and often share scripts with the public and this is wonderful. However, the saying is true that "you get what you pay for." Free help, even from an expert, is still given only to the extent that the helper finds the assistance worth his own time. That is, fully fleshed out systems and advanced scripts are usually saved for the scripter's own personal collection. This is as it should be. No one should expect intricate and game changing script to be crafted and given away for free. It is the generosity of the scripting community that allows any such scripts to see the light of day. Some shard owners have the dedication (and funds) to hire a full-time scripter to do all the coding for their shard, others do their own scripting with help from these boards, often at the expense of time that should be spent running and managing their own server communities. I suggest a third option.

I think it would be great if the sphere community forums had a place for more professional, advanced, high-quality, contract based, FOR-PAY, script requests. I suggest two forum folders. One for server owners to accept bids on their script request in a freelance scenario and another for scripters to "sell" their more advanced scripts.

Here is how I envision it:

Contract Work:
Server Owner makes a post describing in GREAT detail exactly what they are looking for in a script. Scripters submit bids on a price they are willing to fill the contract for. The owner interviews promising bidders and selects one of them to fill the contract. The scripter creates the script requested to the specifications of the owner and is paid the agreed upon amount. It could even be set up so that Sphere collects a commission. Because the script was contracted, the server owner owns the script and the scripter should not release it to additional parties without the consent of the owner.

The other section would work as follows. A scripter posts a description of their script along with a price. The post explains in detail what it does, perhaps even including a video. Shard owners review these scripts, ask questions of the author to determine if they want the script. Then pay the amount set by the scripter and download the script. Again, Sphere could collect a commission.

I'm sure there are third-party systems that would make this simple to do linked from the forum rather than having to build the infrastructure here within the forums. But I think this type of contract-based freelance scripting would be a major boon for the community here. The same could also be applied to every aspect of running a shard including animation and art patching, world building, etc.

Any thoughts??

Post: #2

I like it.

Post: #3

Some questions on this:

What about legal issues related to a game's emulation website offering paid services?

How should we handle something like 'I paid for xxx and now I have xxx but I don't like the xxx I have so I want my money back ... and still have my xxx script'. This is going to give us headaches and more work.

Offering a service such this ... should be followed by a encryption system protecting the scripts so they can't be read/touched/etc... IMO it makes no sense working in something that can be leaked so easily, i'm explaining myself: I get 10€ for a hyper-mega-uber script modifying everything related to spells, from cast times, to effects ... everything, and the one paying just feel free to share it (he could do, because he paid for), but in 3 days ... several people is using this same script which you created just to get money and they just change some values and voilà, 'was this your script? Don't think so dude!'!

IMO a better way for this would be a requests forum, people uploading to a different area (with reply on that submission) and whoever wants the script, pay for it and for possible mods of it.

We have covered some holes, ok, but what about question 1 again? I'm very sure we cannot provide any kind of economical profits of any kind.

And ... finishing now, this would require to connect so much systems (just like paypal) to the forums, an encryption system for the scripts, sphere reading them, etc.

Also I don't know in other countries but here in Spain if you are self-employed (or not employed at all) you MUST declare the money you earn. Paypal can, at some point, ask you where money comes from and force you to declare it.

Post: #4

This seems to difficult to do legally... especially using sphere as the base.. you will have to make a new company and website to facilitate the transactions.

Don't get me wrong... it's a great idea however without having someone to control this it might get a bit difficult.

It is a similar system to many outsourced design website -- 99designs.com for example.

The only way I see this happening is through good will from 2 parties -- "I promise to pay you for your work" -- a verbal (well... written) informal contract..

Post: #5

All valid concerns. I will address them as best I can...

Legal Issues -
I don't know the legal situation in all countries, but as far as EA vs. Sphere; perhaps it would be best to use a 3rd party freelance system for this. This would separate the Emulator from the Script service, but still allow Sphere members to post a link to their page on the 3rd party site. In this case, I don't think Sphere could take a commission, but for legal reasons it might be best for Sphere not to take a cut anyway.

Complaints -
I assume this type of thing can be handled through the 3rd party system. However, even if it can't. I would say this is where the interviewing before hand comes in. If "all sales are final" then it is the responsibility of the buyer to make sure he trusts the scripter before agreeing to the service.

Avoiding Unauthorized Distribution -
This cannot be fixed, I'm afraid. It would certainly be on the honor of the people involved unfortunately. I'd say let the payment be for the commissioning of the script. Once it's done, either party is free to do as they like. Again, if the buyer wants the script to remain private, he will have to trust the scripter. I imagine these 3rd party systems have a way of ranking your service. If the scripter breaks trust, the buyer could leave negative feedback warning others potential buyers that the scripter is not trustworthy.

Paypal, Taxes, Etc -
If done through a third party, this would not be Sphere's problem. It would be between the scripters, paypal, and their government. Some scripters may decide they should not participate for legal reasons local to their area, that is their choice. Either way, it's none of sphere's concern.

EDIT:
oDesk looks promising for the contract work:

https://www.odesk.com/?from=verify

There's no monthly fees, just a 10% commission from what is paid by the buyer. So if the buyer pays $20, the scripter receives $18.

PPD sites like sharecash could be used for the scripter's store, though I think there may be a better option out there. I just haven't found it yet.

Post: #6

I don't think this matter should be taken so serious.

You want a script, someone can do the script for you, you 2 agree on a fee for the work done and any possible adjustment needed.

You pay a third party that hold the payment till the end of the "contract".

Script done, the payment is transferred, and you rate the script service.

For ppl who order the script you can always check and see the script ratings before actually do any ordering.
For the scriptwriter, higher your ratings more work you'll get, more money you can get/charge. Reviews working just like ebay. payment through paypal.

I would recommend a 3 party receiving the payment before the script its done, so if the script is not delivered the money can go back to the person who ordered the script. If the script was done and you don't like it (or it need adjustments, you can also agree in a certain number of adjustments), you still have to pay for it.

And next time you don't order from this scriptwriter again + you leave a bad review/rate for him. I think whoever decide to organize this should also get a cut of it, and the script should have a price limit. (to avoid greed) lol.

This would work like a glove. Would give a little help for good scripters out there to get some $, and would help heaps of shards throughout the world.

Post: #7

Another thing to consider:

What will happen if after a certain amount of time, the person that bought the script discover a major bug in it ?

With complex scripts you can't be 100% sure that you'll receive a "flawless one".

Post: #8

That's all between the buyer and the supplier. If they agree on further support and modification, then so be it. It all boils down to the rankings and whether the buyer trusts the scripter. There is no perfect system. People get ripped off by legitimate businesses all the time. Smart businesses do their best to make things right and keep a good reputation. Dumb businesses cheat their customers and quickly go bankrupt. Again, none of this really matters. This isn't something that sphere needs to do. It's up to the community and individual scripters/shard owners to find and use a system like odesk to post their scripting projects and then link to them here on the forums. If it works out well, it will catch on and become the norm. If not, then it was worth a try and we go back to the way things were. Sphere literally has to do nothing, someone just has to find a 3rd party system they like and be the first one to post. The success or failure of that project will determine whether or not this idea will continue and become popular.

As for the suggestion that all scripts be made public, I suggest anyone who commissions a script should go in to it assuming the script could end up public. That said, custom and unique scripted systems is one major differentiator between shards. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a buyer and scripter to agree to keep a script private. It's just important to realize there is no system of enforcing this agreement.

Post: #9

I would pay to have some scripts done. I wonder if we would have scripters interested...

Post: #10

I'd say post your idea and request bids for the price scripters are willing to do it for. Interview them, check credentials, work out a payment method and see what happens.