Post: #1

Hello everybody,

Today I'm not asking for scripting help exactly, but rather I want to bounce some ideas off the community and see if you folks can help me nail down the details of a death/stats system concept I have floating around in my head.

So here's the basic overview. I would replace the traditional system of hit points (100%=full health, 0%=dead) with a wound system, wellness system and various other ways of handling damage and death. The idea is that people don't generally die from taking too many hits, it's that one fatal blow that kills. Sure blood loss is deadly and so is illness and poison, but in combat you can be killed instantly by failing to block or dodge the wrong move. At the same time, a skilled fighter can fight for hours enduring the pain of his wounds, but blocking the more deadly ones until he is so exhausted that he is finally defeated. Let me also say that on my server there will be semi-permadeath. That is, it is a dungeon survival shard. There are ways to resurrect, but they are not common. Most deaths are final. I'm not here to discuss the merits and flaws of permadeath, I know it is a controversial topic. I just say this so that you will understand the context in which I'm thinking. So here is how I have it in my head right now:

Stat Changes:

Strength = traditional UO strength stat, no change.

MaxHits --> Toughness = Pain tolerance, how much pain can the character take before passing out and how quickly can he regenerate from the shock of pain. (passed out players can be looted and even killed)

Hits --> Pain = When this reaches 0, the character passes out from pain.

Dexterity = normal UO dex tat. No change.

MaxStamina --> Health or Wellness = the character's physical health. Poisons or bleeding wounds not only inflict pain, but also make the character less "well," lowering this stat (which in turn lowers the character's traditional stamina since a sick or bleeding person will be less mobile) If this stat ever becomes 0, the player dies.

Stamina = Normal UO stamina. When this reaches 0, you are too fatigued. Rather than just not being able to move, though, I would have this stat cause the character to pass out from exhaustion (similar to "pain" above.)

Intelligence = Normal UO stat. No change.

MaxMana --> Concentration = This is not really tied to the death system, but is part of the wounds system. I would have magic drain a character's physical resources (stamina) rather than a separate pool. Concentration is the maximum level of 'focus' that a mage can reach.

Mana --> Focus = how hard is the mage focused on what he is doing? Rather than giving each spell a "cast time," I would have them require a level of focus. Focus would typically stay at 20% of the mage's concentration and would NOT passively regenerate to 100%. Instead, whenever a mage begins casting a spell that requires more than 20% focus, the meditation skill automatically kicks in and his focus begins to rise. When it reaches the required level, the spell is cast.

As you can see above, STAM and PAIN will cause you to pass out if they reach 0. The only stat that will cause death at 0 is Health or Wellness (used to be MaxStam, which normally would not lower in vanilla UO.) This is where wounds come in. There are several types of wounds:

Minor Wounds:
Flesh Wounds - lower a player's STR, TOUGHNESS and DEX by 1 in addition to the pain received as a result of the traditional UO hit point system.

Head Wounds - lower a player's INT, CONCENTRATION, and DEX by 1 in addition to pain.

Major Wounds:
Broken Arm = Lowers STR, TOUGHNESS, and DEX by 10 - 20 points and also causes the player to lose the ability to equip items in the broken arm's layer.

Broken Leg = Lowers STR, TOUGHNESS, and DEX by 10 - 20 points and also causes the player to lose the ability to run. 2 broken legs will render the player incapacitated (similar to "passed out." They can be looted or even killed)

Concussion = Drops player's passive focus to 0, lowers INT, CONCENTRATION, and DEX by 10 - 20 points.

Mortal Wounds (can kill):
Hemorrhage = Slowly (or quickly depending on the blow) periodic drop of Health/Wellness. This wound can directly cause death.

Poison/Illness/Starvation = While not technically wounds, poison and sickness lower the Health/wellness stat (either one time or periodic) and can kill the player.

Fatal Wounds (will kill)
Certain monsters and players may have "fatality" like abilities that can kill a player out right. These would be difficult to use and costly to fail, but they should exist. (things like decapitation, impale, dragon biting you in half, etc...)

there may be other thought's that I've failed to include, but that's the basics. Please share your comments and suggestions.

Post: #2

Not sure if you are going to really implement this in the game or is it just an idea. You make it quite difficult for yourself to actually carry it out.

The health can be in fact only one. I don't see the point to have "2 healths" - one for poisons and stuff, and one for physical wounds. It still represents your health condition. To make it easier, it still can be hits/maxhits and if the hits reach 0, the char faints. Dungeon siege 1 has it like this. The character is no longer a primary target for monsters (perma dead is quite pissing) and can be healed from it and soon can "come to life" again. But if there won't be any healers and he will be solo, hes prolly dead. Forever.

If it will be very hard to max up the character I would also inspire with.. (don't know how it is called - about 2 years old diablo style game) - there is a hardcore mode - its like the permadeath, but with a little difference. Hardcore players (no deaths allowed) have their own ranking system, better drops I guess, get more rewards, etc. but if they die, they will getthe status of a normal mode player. They won't lose their things, money, skills, but won't be anymore the elite.


And try to avoid insta-kills - like the fatal death. Let them have a chance to heal themselves from it. They won't like you, if a random (even if it was 0,0001%) ruins their game.

Conclusion: I would personally try to simplify it a bit. It will be easier not only for you but for the players to understand the system as well.

Post: #3

Hi Alaric,

Thanks a bunch for the reply! For now it's just an idea, but I would like to build a survival game around this idea. Players would start the game at 225 stats and 700 skills. There would be no skill cap and a 375 stat cap. So they aren't starting out helpless. I agree that simplification could be needed. The health is not actually separated into physical and poison (sorry for the confusion.) I said health/wellness because i haven't decided what to call it. It is still only one stat. physical damage, bleeding, poison, etc all effect the same health stat. If you were talking about pain/health, I like that because taking too much damage (pain) can make you pass out and easily return to life like in normal UO. Serious damage (that affects Health) is what can eventually kill you permanently. As far as the fatal wounds, I agree that rareness alone is not enough to make it balanced. I do think some creatures (dragons) should be scary for this reason. No player will face a dragon in melee if they are risking a permakill. However, for fatality style hits, I think it would need to compare the "threat" of the hit with the "defense" of the player (stats, skills, armor, etc.) This could allow a player to have some level of confidence that this type of blow won't happen. For example, a wearing a gorget can prevent decapitation and throat slits, etc. Thanks for the advice and for taking to time to check it out!