+- SphereCommunity (https://forum.spherecommunity.net)
+-- Forum: General Discussion (/Forum-General-Discussion)
+--- Forum: UO/Sphere Discussion (/Forum-UO-Sphere-Discussion)
+--- Thread: Any progress about open source? (/Thread-Any-progress-about-open-source)
RE: Any progress about open source? - Wap - 08-09-2015 12:34 AM
A few years ago I stopped development on Sphere by reason of failing to make a treaty with Sphere Devs about access to source code... But when I heard about this vote, I login to my account and vote "yes", may be it helps someone like me, but now.
RE: Any progress about open source? - Ben - 08-09-2015 12:54 AM
Just want to let everyone know that if I decide to go through with this, it will take some time to setup.
There is a transfer from SVN to GitHub (private repo) currently happening with the sphere repository.
the nightly generating process is also being updated to work with GIT. (which is why the main win build not compiling right now is not being fixed)
PS: I did get permission from Damian to do as I please with this matter, and I have a funny feeling you all know what the outcome is going to be...
RE: Any progress about open source? - jusaf - 08-09-2015 03:29 AM
(08-09-2015 12:54 AM)Ben Wrote: Just want to let everyone know that if I decide to go through with this, it will take some time to setup.There are some nice Continuous Integration/Delivery systems for open source projects that works great with GitHub.
There is a transfer from SVN to GitHub (private repo) currently happening with the sphere repository.
the nightly generating process is also being updated to work with GIT. (which is why the main win build not compiling right now is not being fixed)
PS: I did get permission from Damian to do as I please with this matter, and I have a funny feeling you all know what the outcome is going to be...
RE: Any progress about open source? - Avatar - 08-09-2015 06:28 AM
The purpose of the community like "Sphere Server" is supposed to be sharing anything related with what community does as "open" , so that anyone can learn something new about what we are sharing in this community. What I understand from open source is the free and open knowledge and it is priceless and that can be accessed by anyone and change the content freely. So there were people around me who knows some stuff about programming. I'm not talking about today. In the past, let say 8-10 years ago, we were really hard working on sphere scripting and other programming languages to make our server in a better form. We were really hungry for the knowledge on programming. Sometimes we dreamed one thing which one day we might see "the source code" like seeing Smurfs if we were good enough
) But, we saw nothing in the past. So I got a chance to see the source code while having developer position in the community and made some modification on it in my server. That was not worth committing to SVN indeed. I always shared what I have done so far in terms of scripting etc. Maybe there are people who are ache to get involved or at least want to know the source so that they can add value on it or change it by their wills. I got source code when I almost lost my interest on Ultima Online, That's why it meant nothing to me at that time. However, once I saw this post, I remember "the old me" who really wanted to work on Sphere Server. Therefore, I wish others ,who really want to add value not only on this community but also on the Ultima Online Era, have a chance to see this projects as open source.Consequently, I voted as yes.
RE: Any progress about open source? - Coruja - 08-09-2015 08:16 AM
I think we must place some things in its place, like many ppl said that just want take a look at the source just to "bring back old memories" or "because its cool". I understand it, and I'm always wanted take a look on the source too
but ppl are only thinking about personal purposes and forgetting about the rest. Going open source, ppl like Avatar (just an example) will have access to the source and maybe will finally be able to create something that he always wanted. But on the other side, the source now will be public, everyone will have access to this same source too and everyone can use it to explore new exploits and take down Avatar's server. And not just Avatar's server, but every other sphere server, including our servers from everyone writing here
just think about this situation: a noob/lammer/etc got access to sphere source and found a critical exploit that crash the server, so he will create a macro that keep doing this thing to crash the server, and also the macro will automatically reconnect when the server goes back and will keep doing this forever. Result: game over, the server is now under control of this noob and wont be online again until he stop or until someone fix this exploit. Maybe it will be something easy to fix, but maybe something that we will take months to find, or even never find it
so the things are not so shiny as everyone think. Of course some ppl will really help to improve the source, but on the other side, every server will be highly vulnerable to new exploits, which can be just a simple exploit easy to fix or something critical that will destroy the entire server
RE: Any progress about open source? - darksun84 - 08-09-2015 10:04 AM
I agree 100% with coruja, people seems to forget that games (unfortunately) attracts a lot of cheater/exploiter.
RE: Any progress about open source? - WRWR - 08-09-2015 10:46 AM
In Russia says: Being afraid of wolfs do not go to the forest
Have you any example of critical exploits that was used on runuo shards?
RE: Any progress about open source? - Coruja - 08-09-2015 12:03 PM
unfortunately I'm not closer to RUO servers/community so I cant tell about RUO problems
but on sphere we already had this exploit wave near ~2003 when 55i source got leaked and ppl created "tools" like TEOT (a vendor exploit to buy items paying 0gp and sell it back to this same npc to create infinite gold), loop macros that makes sphere crash in just some seconds by buffer overflow, and some others exploits that I cant remember right now
RE: Any progress about open source? - XuN - 08-09-2015 04:12 PM
I have fixed this year and the past one two exploits making the server crash instantly with no errors or clues at all of what happened so open servers will be forced to update everything to latest builds to avoid this problem, which will cause tons of problems because of the big amount of changes made that cannot be updated from one day to another, formulas changes debalancing everything until they find out that this had to be updated and some more obvious problems. We are NOT talking about runuo, do not do comparisons, it's stupid, this is Sphere, they may have (or have not) their problems ... we have ours. I don't think any of the 'yes voters' will help out server's admins to update everything in order to have it running in latest builds like they had it ... but, hey, runuo is cool because we can have it's source ... seriously, use real arguments against or just don't post.
There are some beneficts on going open source? Of course!! but for that greedy people only wanting the source caring nothing about what is already working out there ... this is what Ben warned about sphere dying: We go open, in 2 weeks every open shard is full of retards exploiting them and taking them down ... so if we have now only a small amount of servers ... then only a very few will survive this retarded wave created by the results of a selfish and greedy voters (Not saying everyone wants it like this, but most), and this people is not saying anything to belie this words...
So, tell me, what are the beneficts of losing 35 of the 38 (not real numbers... maybe higher than reallity... probably) servers with a considerate amount of players, players which will have nowhere to wander and will finally leave UO?? These servers won't open again, these players won't play again. Sphere loses, UO loses, selfish win? -100% profit IMO.
And, again, I urge these people only saying 'vote for yes, ruo is cool, we need open source,etc' with no real arguments AT ALL to expose here a way to help those living shards from the already fixed exploits and the ones we might already have... because, you want open source to help the community, right? Start here and now then, and proof that pure will of helping.
PS: I don't think anyone will reply this, never expected, but at least be honest and don't add nonsense shit here trying to fool people like we were all stupid.
RE: Any progress about open source? - xantier - 08-10-2015 02:43 AM
(08-09-2015 04:12 PM)XuN Wrote: I have fixed this year and the past one two exploits making the server crash instantly with no errors or clues at all of what happened so open servers will be forced to update everything to latest builds to avoid this problem, which will cause tons of problems because of the big amount of changes made that cannot be updated from one day to another, formulas changes debalancing everything until they find out that this had to be updated and some more obvious problems. We are NOT talking about runuo, do not do comparisons, it's stupid, this is Sphere, they may have (or have not) their problems ... we have ours. I don't think any of the 'yes voters' will help out server's admins to update everything in order to have it running in latest builds like they had it ... but, hey, runuo is cool because we can have it's source ... seriously, use real arguments against or just don't post.
There are some beneficts on going open source? Of course!! but for that greedy people only wanting the source caring nothing about what is already working out there ... this is what Ben warned about sphere dying: We go open, in 2 weeks every open shard is full of retards exploiting them and taking them down ... so if we have now only a small amount of servers ... then only a very few will survive this retarded wave created by the results of a selfish and greedy voters (Not saying everyone wants it like this, but most), and this people is not saying anything to belie this words...
So, tell me, what are the beneficts of losing 35 of the 38 (not real numbers... maybe higher than reallity... probably) servers with a considerate amount of players, players which will have nowhere to wander and will finally leave UO?? These servers won't open again, these players won't play again. Sphere loses, UO loses, selfish win? -100% profit IMO.
And, again, I urge these people only saying 'vote for yes, ruo is cool, we need open source,etc' with no real arguments AT ALL to expose here a way to help those living shards from the already fixed exploits and the ones we might already have... because, you want open source to help the community, right? Start here and now then, and proof that pure will of helping.
PS: I don't think anyone will reply this, never expected, but at least be honest and don't add nonsense shit here trying to fool people like we were all stupid.
Are you aware that all those exploits you list are caused because it's been closed source for so many years, so long that even the little development staff forgot to take care of? Are you aware of that there were many servers closed because of TEOT hack and it took LITERALLY lots of months to be fixed and all the shards' owners just sit there and watch their shards die while waiting for devs to fix the emulator? And even though the exploit is fixed, people couldn't just update their server because everything else gets ruined in the process. I remember those days, literally nobody even cared about TEOT. It was like a joke to watch all those shards die like flies in those years.
"We go open, in 2 weeks every open shard is full of retards exploiting them and taking them down"
Seriously? Why are there STILL this much of critical exploits after 15 years of development then? I am leaving this subject to you to think objectively. I won't give you a hint.
"so open servers will be forced to update everything to latest builds to avoid this problem, which will cause tons of problems because of the big amount of changes made that cannot be updated from one day to another"
And why are you suddenly changing the scripting that makes owners impossible to update, who did you ask to do such huge changes without backwards compatibility while lots of shards are depending on your progress? I am not blaming you for developing sphereserver but just put yourself in those people's place. If it was an open source project, people would just checkout the specific diff patch that fixes the exploit, is it too hard to understand that not everyone has bad intentions in this world? Seriously, who do you think you are that can make such STRONG accusations and assumptions about people's intentions on what they would do or not?
"Every shard will get closed because you voted yes, you are bad people and when every shard is closed UO is dead"
Whoa, what a great argument you made there. Can you explain why are those shards getting closed in the first place just because the project is open source? You seem to guarantee that there are lots of exploits you still couldn't find (every project has exploits of course), so it validates that the exploits stay there whether it's open source or not, so one hacker could still crash every shard while all those unexpected crashes desperately wait to be fixed until when HOPEFULLY the reason is found.
Actually you know what? I withdraw. Yeah seriously guys, I am really tired of giving this open source war for years and getting behaved like I'm a stupid hack with bad intentions. I give up. I don't give a damn about your proprietary bloatware. I came here in hopes of getting it open source and fork it, do fixes as I see fit and send pull requests to the main branch to help the project while enjoying programming in my spare time when I'm out of job. But f.. me for still dealing with UO in 2015. Whenever you encounter some constructive arguments, you suddenly start being a politician and talking non-sense with lots of ad hominem and false accusations. Even debating this subject is absurd for UO and the current year. God...
Oh finally, I know one of those No voters personally that PROFITS from selling anti-hack software to close up sphere's exploits. He is probably scared because his twisted business will get wrecked down. Hypocrites.